The dashboard, tasks, and pipeline
Meillier, Yannick
via email
Hi Cameron,
There was one suggestion I wanted to make following red dwarf but then I had forgotten what it was. Now I remember.
So in red dwarf I was the team leader of the matchmoving team and would assign shots to 2 other matchmovers.
First time shots came in, Mat would assign me the shots. So they would show up on my dashboard. Then It was up to me to reassign it to whoever (including myself).
The thing is, as the team lead, you want to keep track of how your team is doing on their shots.
When logging in on the dashboard, I get to see the shots that I was assigned under the tasks table.
But once I delegate some shots to other matchmovers, my dashboard does not show them.
So it can be easy to forget about those tasks I'm not assigned but need to keep track of when dealing with lots of shots.
I used to keep an excel document of my own listing all the shots that ever needed 3d tracking and taking notes of who it was assigned to and their status.
That's something I'd like the dashboard to be able to do. So that it can not only be a reminder of my own tasks and their status, but also keep an eye on other tasks.
This way the dashboard shows everything I want to keep an eye on. All in one page.
So would be nice if the dashboard could have the option for us to add tasks to the table that are not ours.
Another example.
Say I am a comper and need the matchmove before doing the comp in 3D. Or a 3D guy waiting for the matchmove to do my renders.
Those 2 people could add the matchmover's task for that shot to their table of tasks.
This way on the dashboard they get to see what's the status on the matchmove, if somebody is working on it and how close it is to being done so that they can now start their own work.
See what I mean?
Oh also maybe be able to set an automatic reminder when a task gets completed.
Like say the matchmover is done and therefore the matchmove task status is set to complete.
If I chose to monitor that shot, have shotrunner send me an alert by email (and maybe show the alert on the dashboard) indicating something like: "Notification: 3d track task of shot 028 is complete"
Oh and finally, last suggestion, do the task show thumbnails of the shot? Would be nice if it did. Cause sometimes you can forget what shot 78: 3d tracking can be but a picture is easier to remember and really helps figuring out what that shot is
Again this is just another suggestion to make the dashboard as useful and complete as possible.
Take care.
-yannick
Support Staff 2 Posted by cameron on 12 Nov, 2009 01:01 AM
Yannick,
Thanks for forwarding these suggestions to me. Sorry for the delay, it took me a couple of days to think through these issues.
1: Tasks lists can show tasks for others
The idea behind the dashboard is to show what you personally need to pay attention to. Right now, it shows your tasks across ALL of your projects. This is different from all the other task lists that just show the tasks for one project.
One thing you could do is assign a category to each task, and then sort the tasks by category on the Tasks tab.
Beyond that, we are going to need to do is improve on the task list filters. I would like to add more filtering options to the task list, and this could include 'Team tasks' in addition to 'My tasks', etc.
Since the dashboard cuts across multiple projects, the filter item will need to be 'Tasks for my teams'. This would include all open tasks for the team that I'm on in each open project. We will need to remember whatever settings you choose for list.
See the attached picture for an idea of what I'm thinking for task filters.
2: Status or reminders for tasks done by others
Its becoming clear that people want some kind triggering to occur when tasks are completed. The challenge here is to do something that doesn't require too much setup and maintenance, or people won't use it. I'm not sure I've come up with anything satisfactory for this yet.
I'm thinking along the lines of a defined 'pipeline', that would automatically link tasks of one category to tasks of another category. Its a little complicated because roto, tracking, CG renders, paint, etc. all need to feed into compositing. 3D modeling feeds rigging, texturing, and lighting, which all feed rendering. But the idea is that you could setup a general pipeline rather than having to hand link chains of individual tasks for each and every shot.
However we solve that issue, I'm thinking that whenever we automatically flip a task status from Pending to Working, that we should notify the task owner.
3: Object thumbnails in task lists
This wouldn't be that hard to do, but it would certainly make the list bulkier. I would want to wait until I can let the user resize the thumbnails in a list. This is something that is coming when I flip everything over to a new UI framework.
Cheers,
Cameron
3 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 18 Nov, 2009 04:15 PM
that looks good cameron.
For now, for keeping track of shots status assigned to other team members, I will create a new task assigned to me for that shot.
it's just a way for me to remember what shots were assigned to team members.
A nice thing would be to be able to assign the shot to multiple persons (in this case 2, the artist doing the work and myself so that i can see the progress bar and status in my task list).
plus in some cases it might be needed to assign the same task to multiple people. like a roto for example that requires lots of layers and could use the help from multiple people.
Support Staff 4 Posted by cameron on 18 Nov, 2009 04:30 PM
We used to have the ability to assign tasks to multiple people, but everyone hated it and we took it out. What I tell people to do now is just create 2 different tasks. What I probably need to do is improve the UI so that it is easier to set up lots of tasks.
If you go to the shot list (any of the views) and choose the "My Shots" filter, does that give you what you are after?
If not, try adding a "Roto" or "3D track" element to a shot with yourself as the lead, and then see if the "My Shots" filter does what you want. You should be able to get a listing of all shots that you are either supervising at some level, or have tasks on.
5 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 18 Nov, 2009 04:50 PM
yeah i can see how assigning the same task to multiple people could be a problem (like how do manage the progress bar?). Having multiple assignees for a task is definitely not a good idea.
would be nice to a field called 'Supevisors' that would make this task appear in their task list showing the assignee's name for that task and the progress bar (the same it would look the task list of that artisan).
Like you said, for now i will probably create a new task assigned to myself on those shots i want to monitor progress on.
As you said that task will now show up in my task list which is a good start.
However ultimately, what you would want is to see the task of that artisan that is working on it, and see the progress bar.
By assigning myself a task for that shot, it can only be a reminder of shots to go visits.
like i go on my tasks and see that 'monitor' task for that shot. To really know what hte status is on that shot, i click on the shot # of that task and then get to see what the status is for the task i really want to monitor (the task of assigned to the artisan).
Just one click away so it will work for now but ultimately, would be nice to have tasks from other people show up in my task list for monitoring purposes.
At one glance, i get to see what my tasks are and what is the status of other task i delegated to others.
that could be useful thing for every team leader and prodcution management.
Like Mike could tell the Comp team lead for example, 'you monitor all the roto and keying tasks on the various shots'
Matt you monitor all the '3d tasks' and myself (Mike) i will monitor all the final comp tasks.
Right now a tem leader delegates shots and has to take notes of what shots were delegated so that he won't forget about them.
because once they are delegated to others, they are not in your task list, yo ucan easily loose sight of some of those tasks.
hoep that all makes sense.
I'll use the workaround for now which will do just fine.
-y
Support Staff 6 Posted by cameron on 18 Nov, 2009 05:11 PM
Yannick, yes, I am going to add the tasks filter "my team" as in the picture above. So you will be able to monitor all the tasks for your team on your dashboard if you wish. But you will be able to do this without having to do extra data entry. You will also be able to see completed tasks if you wish.
We are also working on some kind of notification when the status of something changes, so you will be able to monitor that.
Does the "My Shots" filter provide you with anything useful?
7 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 18 Nov, 2009 05:49 PM
There is no 'My shots' filter but you meant 'My tasks' right?
Support Staff 8 Posted by cameron on 18 Nov, 2009 05:57 PM
No, I mean when you got to the Shots tab (not the tasks tab) there is a filter that says "My Shots". Not sure if that is useful to you or not.
-C
9 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 18 Nov, 2009 06:10 PM
oh yeah i get it now. That is indeed useful cause you get to see the thumbnails.
10 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 19 Nov, 2009 05:05 PM
Hi Cameron.
another thing totally unrelated i just noticed.
just wrote a new note on the forums and at the end forgot to tick the names of the person it was intended for.
clicked 'edit this note for xx minutes' hoping i could correct that mistake and you can only edit the note itself.
I'm sure that forgetting to choose the names of the intended recipient is a common mistake. Not that they will not see it if they visit the forums.
-yannick
Support Staff 11 Posted by cameron on 19 Nov, 2009 05:15 PM
Yannick,
Let me ask a somewhat related question: Do you think it would be better if, instead of letting note authors decide who gets the notes, if we instead let people 'subscribe' to shots, elements, assets, etc. and they receive all notes on that shot, element, etc.?
So, whether you receive a notification would be up to the receiver instead of the sender. In other words, if I have subscribed for notices on a shot, I don't have to let someone else decide on each individual posting whether I actually get notified.
I'm thinking about this because of a question Mike raised, and also because we would like to be able to send out notifications when the status is changed.
This is somewhat related to your question as it would remove the problem of forgetting to check people off. However, you would not be able to specifically direct a message at someone, other than to use the 'Request Response' workflow.
--Cameron
12 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 19 Nov, 2009 05:31 PM
yeah i think that it would be good.
Still find it useful to be able to choose persons who should receive a direct notification email about that note that is intended for them.
I guess production people might reeive crap load of notification that they could really live wihtout.
So either give an option for the receiver to opt out of the notification service for that thread or, make it so that he is automatically unsuscirbed from the discussion and give them the option to suscribe if they want to.
note sure what would be the best approach.
You also wouldn't want to do the notification subscription at a shot level becuase of added noise (like people making comments on their compositing taks, i receive all those message because i'm suscribed to teh shot).
but it might be necessary otherwise it might get too complicated.
example: mike asked me if i thought we should do 3d tracking on MD-010. I was like why not sure, just let me know when you need it.
mike did that note on the 3d tracking task discussion thread.
meanwhile david who is doing compositing, has been struggling to do the sign inserts in 2d. then he asked a few days later if we could have a 3d track. But he was unaware of the discussion between mike and i.
if he had been signed up for notification for shot MD-010, he would have seen those discussions.
So in the end, it is better if we get suscribed to all messages at a shot level. However, David should have checked the 3d tracking task status and messages if he wanted to know what was the deal with 3d trackign on this shot.... so maybe opting out for certain tasks notification in a shot would be a good idea as well.
Support Staff 13 Posted by cameron on 19 Nov, 2009 05:58 PM
So there are no easy answers.
Trying to keep things simple here, I've been racking my brain over the last couple of days turning over different approaches to this -- maybe its best to just slightly extend what we already have:
Allow people to add themselves to a distribution list for any object (project, sequence, shot, element, asset, task or page.)
If they are on the distribution list, then they automatically are subscribed to each thread that is created on that object. That means that they will be notified whether they are explicitly checked off by the sender or not.
For example, I add myself to the 3D Tracking element on MD-010. I will be added to the list of subscribers for any new thread that is created. This will include status change notes in the near future.
A slight complication would be to let them choose the note types they are interested in: (comment/reply, submittal/feedback, question/answer, status).
Plus, make it easier for people to add/remove themselves from particular threads. You can do it now but its well hidden.
14 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 19 Nov, 2009 06:07 PM
yes no easy answer.
i guess just give people the option and let them decide.
would be nice to also sign up for messages on a shot, no matter if it is a message of a task or a message in the shot's forum.
So option to sign up and to unsuscribe, to tasks, or shots or shot+tasks.
Support Staff 15 Posted by cameron on 19 Nov, 2009 06:32 PM
Now, you see? You just made my head explode again. Making it shot+tasks makes it really hard.
So, we need an elegant way to solve this... Users should just see subscribe/unsubscribe in different places, very simple.
Update: After thinking for about 20 minutes about all kinds of horribly complicated cascading scenarios, think it could be like this:
1) You can subscribe to any object (project, sequence, shot, element, asset, task or page) by clicking a simple 'subscribe' link.
2) When you subscribe, you are added to the watcher list for any new note thread on that object. That means you'll get all the new notes including status updates. You will also get notified when any subordinate object is created or deleted (one level deep only). So a sequence on a project, a shot or task on a sequence, an element or task on a shot, a task on an asset.
3) When you get your notification, there are two links, one to unsubscribe you from the object, and a) if it is a note one to unsubscribe you from the thread, or b) if it is a new subordinate object one to subscribe you to that new object.
So the links would be:
"I don't care about Shot MD-010 anymore, unsubscribe me" " I don't care about this topic anymore, unsubscribe me" "I would like to follow Element MD-010-Tracking, subscribe me"
16 Posted by Yannick Meillier on 19 Nov, 2009 07:19 PM
sounds good. That would do the job.
-y